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BELGIUM
…Two Supreme Black Metal bands from which I was sure they were busy with the subject. I asked Peter from ABIGOR and Axhind from SUDARIUM some questions which they seemed to find interesting. Well, let's check out what we can learn from this dark souls…
I. As you know most grimoires are written long before our solar system was discovered as it is now. In that time they didn't knew anything about Pluto, other moons or other solar systems. The Goetia, for example is full of rituals corresponding with only the planets they had discovered then. What is your explanation or comment on these ancient grimoires versus the connection astronomy- astrology/magic?
Peter:
Well, as you know, the sun is the fix-star of our solar system, and all other stars describe mostly a constant circle around the sun, so it will not have any negative affect at all, if those ancient magicians have not known for example Pluto or even other solar systems, because the mentioned rituals, especially of the Key of Solomon, refer to the planet constellations they already knew at that time. But if one see it that critical, today no ritual would be successful to 100% because the entire constellations of the planets has changed a bit during these hundreds of years. However the equilibrium between magic and astrology is more or less very important, but it depends on the ritual, or the summoning/ evocation you'd like to perform. Personally, I see it as quite useless, to perform a ritual of devotion without checking out the right constellation, this means the day, hour, and position of Venus, and the same goes for example for destruction and Mars, but finally it is up to every individual how he/she likes and feel the need for it.
Axhind:
To start with, the Ancients knew a lot more about the heavens above then you'd expect. For example, the precession of the earth-axis was not unknown among Middle-Eastern people and you just have to look at Stonehenge to see that even the tribes who lived in Europe before the Celtic invasions had a complex system of calculating the equinoxes, eclipses and so forth. To have knowledge about the stars is to have knowledge about the gods. The reason why ancient grimoires only deal with the planets they knew at that time should be obvious, but even today this doesn't presents a great problem. You see, in magick there's made use of planets as well as the so-called" "fake-planets" ( such as the sun and the moon), and there's a good reason to it. You have to understand that the general idea behind the use of "planets" in magick, is that heavenly bodies influence their surroundings. Physics learns us that this is indeed the case (cfr. Laws of Keppler), but this is not limited to gigantic objects, but to every atom in universe, including those the human body is composed of. Thus, the position of the heavenly bodies, somehow influences human behavior as well as natural phenomena. Most people know that the moon affects the tides, but it also affects the menstruation cycle of women because the moon attracts all fluids, just as the sun and the planets do, but in a smaller extent due to the greater distance. Our body-fluids are affected in the same way as the oceans, and since we're 70% water, these influences should not be underestimated. Now, when certain old grimoires only deal with the largest and nearest of the planets, they are correct in the general sense, because it are these that influence us the most. Off course the magician of today has the opportunity to obtain more accurate results and therefore greater success in his work, because of our ever-increasing knowledge about the stars. Nevertheless most people I know that occupy themselves with magick (or claim they do) don't have the slightest idea of what they're doing, because they fail to see that mere astrology is not sufficient for successful magick. The true sorcerer understands that he needs to have knowledge about physics, chemistry, geography, astronomy, etc. as well as on more occult matters. If you hold in mind that some old formula are incorrect or can be adjusted, you'll understand that magick isn't just using a grimoire as a manual, but as a guideline. To question all things is the beginning of all wisdom, and that's the basic drive in science, as it is in Satanism.
II. In time the ecliptica is shoven, so the old constellations are not the same as those used in the astrology of today. When using these constellations for rituals, do you try to use the ancients like the Egyptians did? Please comment.
Peter:
Personally I refer to actual constellations, and the 'star-hours' of today. Because one can work much more exact with today's constellations, if one search for several special things and if one want a special or even a very personal result of the ritual.
Axhind:
First of all, allow me to correct your question before I'll answer: the constellations haven't changed, but the time of the year when this or that constellation dominates the hemisphere has ( due to the precision, which makes that the zodiac seems to revolve and make a complete turn every 25.920 years). Because medieval occultists lost this concept, we see at present times that so-called astrologers still use the constellations as they stood at the time of the pharaohs. That's why "modern" horoscopes are a massive load of bull!
When I use constellations for rituals, I use the constellations of the Sumerians, that are the same as we know them nowadays, but I need not to mention that I use The Celtic zodiac (which has 13 signs instead of 12) when involved in Celtic rituals and so on. Of course I have to recalculate the positions of the ancients to know how they are today, but these calculations become rather easy if you use a star-disc, which allows you to find your way among the stars within minutes if you're experienced enough. It takes some more effort, but at least I know I open the right Gates to summon spirits, instead of bumping my head to the walls of heaven, so to speak.
III. Mention a few books/ grimoires which were very important to your ego of today.
Peter:
As I were younger I read a lot of different books and scripts that dealt with very different sources of magick, occultism, Satanism, witchcraft, and paranormal phenomena, but I think no special book was that important to me, because all of these have finally formed my knowledge, and wisdom of today, and a main part which you simply can't find in any books is, that one must take experiments, thus means you have to perform rituals, summonings and evocations,...
-not the theory is important, even it's necessary, but to practice brings the knowledge.
Axhind:
The works of Nietzsche, especially "Twilight of the Idols", "Beyond good and evil" and "The Antichrist", furthermore "Baphomet and the tarot of the Underworld" by Akron, "the Compendium and Malleus Maleficarum", "the Grimoirium Verum", "the Necronomicon" (all versions, not only the famous paper-back edition…) "The rites of Odin" by Ed Fitch (extreme useful for the practising "Ulfhednar"), "The Magus" by Barett, "The book of Samyaza", "The Book of Lilith" and not to forget: the insane teachings of Marquis de Sade, and of course "The Vampire Bible", which is the most essential work of all when one is involved in astral vampirism -and beyond!
IV. Do you practice black or white magick, in which circumstances (individual, group rituals) Which graduate do you have and are you interested in a special branch of magick(ceremonial, astral, symbol,…)
Peter:
I practice the form of magick I need for the result of the ritual, no matter if it's black or white magic, even I also think that one can't separate it that strictly. I mainly perform rituals out in the nature, and sometimes in an old cellar, and as I wrote, it depends on the star constellations, if I perform it at day or night, or even I don't care about the constellations, if I perform some other rituals but then mostly at night. I am not that interested in offer my personal form of magick I like to practice the most in that common way, so try to understand it.
Axhind:
I mostly practise black and red magick, normally on my own, but in certain occasions with others, as I have the function of high-priest in some organizations. I do not wish to talk about details about these matters, because it's none of the readers business, although I can answer the last question: all sorts of magick interest me as they're all inter-linked with each other and can't stand on their own! Even so I prefer astral and ceremonial magick, as they've proven to be most successful in my case, an can be used for almost every purpose, from Necromancy to Witchcraft or simple psycho-drama. And sexual Magick of course.
V. As a Satanist, you probably agree for the most with Nietzsches philosophy. Don't you think his basic principles about humanity (wolves versus sheep) are a little bit exaggerated?
Axhind:
Not at all! Attach metaphor to reality, and hold in mind the basics of psychology and history. "All the world's a stage", and history has been nothing more then a play of mayhem and murder throughout the ages! The Lie of Christianity and Religion is to deny this truth, in order to hold asleep the darker nature. Sleepwalkers vs. Dreamers, Wolf vs. Sheep, Masters vs. Slaves, it's all the same. Life is linked to survival and the strong always have better chances, especially in human ways. Those who don't wanna apply these principles, fine with me; they'll be my lunch anyway!
VI. Do you think national-socialism in Germany has made misabuse of Nietzsches words? (don't forget he wasn't a German nationalist, but rather a defender of Greek-Roman civic culture.)
Axhind:
In some ways. Remember that the national-socialistic view of the "Übermensch" isn't the kind of Nietzsches god-man. There are some similarities between the two philosophical systems, but in Nat.-Soc. the State comes at the first place whereas Nietzsche fought for a free, new-born individual that doesn't bend for any thought-killing entity whatsoever. If 'The Third Reich' had been peopled with Nietzsches "Ubermensch", it wouldn't have lost the war, for every soldier fought 'till death (which was Hitlers last command by the way…) If you Read Alfred Rosenberg, you'll soon learn the differences between the two systems. None of them are entirely right, as everyone has to determine his own way. But they are guides to be trusted after all egoism is the most of all evil stifling.
Interview done by Domini Mortiis Adductor
Contact Domini Mortiis Adductor: clavicul@hotmail.com
Contact Sudarium: SUDARIUM_Be@hotmail.com